Community Game

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    • Originally posted by peanutsandwich
      Hi Mike and Rez!

      The folks working on the community game have settled on using the GCC engine as the foundation for the game engine and aim to expand and improve on what is already there to eventually make a tower defense game.

      With that being the case, our first question is: do either of you have any objection to this?

      If you are happy with us as a team doing this, would you have any objection to us taking the GCC engine into a separate (public) repo wholesale in its current form and then making our modifications on top of this? Or do you guys have another idea that you'd be happier with?

      We obviously don't want to step on toes with this!

      If you'd prefer to discuss this through PMs, please let me know and I'll happily carry on the discussion with you guys there!

      Thanks!

      Mark


      I'll talk to Mike about this and one of us will post the result. As long as the license doesn't change and all the original copyrights are there, it's probably just fine.

      -Rez
    • Hey guys,

      Mike and I spoke on the phone today and came up with our response to using the engine for this community project. You are free to use the Game Coding Complete engine under the following conditions:

      • All copyright notices must remain intact.
      • You must give credit to Mike and I for the original code in your credits screen.
      • The project must be under the same license as the Game Coding Complete 4th Edition code.


      As long as these conditions are met, you can use, modify, tweak, and build upon the Game Coding Complete engine.

      Furthermore, if we feel that the project is commercially viable, we will negotiate in good faith a contract to allow you to sell the game and make money from it if that's your desire.

      We're both very excited to see what comes of this! Good luck, and let us know if you have any questions.

      -Rez & Mike
    • Go forth and do great things!!!!!
      Mr.Mike
      Author, Programmer, Brewer, Patriot

    • - All copyright notices must remain intact.
      - You must give credit to Mike and I for the original code in your credits screen.
      - The project must be under the same license as the Game Coding Complete 4th Edition code.


      Ok. We will. =)
      The license of our engine will be LGPL, as in GCC and we will save all copyright and so on.

      Here the link of the git repo github.com/AndreyChernykh/CommunityTD
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    • Hey All,

      Just got the 4th edition of this book to complement Game Programming with DirectX 11 and started to work through. Found the forums and noticed this post. After reading through the pages, I can't wait to see what you all produce out of this concept.

      If you ever need a novice programmer to help in on little bits here and there don't hesitate to give me a shout.

      A little background. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade but a programmer at heart. I've been developing websites for the last few years as a hobby, but have always been intrigued by 3D and game engine design and have started devoting as much free time as possible to this end for the last few months.

      Well, best of luck and I'll be checking in to see how things go.

      -Mebourne

      The post was edited 1 time, last by mebourne ().

    • Originally posted by Trinak
      Unfortunately, the team working on it kinda fell apart and died for various reasons.

      What reasons?

      -Rez
    • From my perspective (others may see it differently, and my memory is not the greatest at times), we started with a team of 7 and started meeting/discussing around the end of June:
      - about 2 weeks in, 1 left due to a new job (working in the same game genre we were, felt conflict of interest)
      - about 4 weeks in 1 left for personal reasons

      The remaining 5 members all decided to part ways at roughly the same time (around the beginning of August) for the following reasons:
      - 1 member did not like the game concept we had decided upon and was having troubles visualizing/accepting it
      - Other members felt there was a lot of discussion about the same thing each week with little to no progress made
      - As we only met once a week via skype with little communication between meetings this contributed to the feeling of little being done and discussing things multiple times (though good meeting minutes were kept)
      - People wanted to start coding, but could not necessarily decide or agree where to start or what needed to be done.

      After 2 more members decided to leave for the above reasons the group kind of fell apart at this point I think. There are probably other reasons, but I believe these are the main ones.
    • That's unfortunate, but also very typical. Most game projects fail for similar reasons. It sounds like the key element that was missing was organization and leadership (a producer and lead engineer). Many of the things you described have been felt time and time again. A friend of mine quit his job as an art lead for Kabam to work on an indie project. He wrote an extensive post on his experiences which is really worth reading:
      medium.com/what-i-learned-building/a2ab2683a341

      I hope this doesn't discourage anyone. You should still pursue your own projects and try to build something. Whenever I work on side projects, I assume that I'll have to do it completely by myself, even when I enter into it with people who have really good intentions. If I get some art here or there, that's a bonus. It almost never happens though, so I prepare for the worst.

      I LOVE making games. The whole process of making a game enriches my life and fuels the fire of my creativity. When I get into it, it consumes every waking moment and eventually consumes my sleeping moments as well. Why would I let other people stand in the way of that?

      -Rez
    • I remember I've read story on altdevblogaday about a guy who failed doing his game alone (he ran out of money eventually). So basically one can fail for almost any reason.

      I hope this doesn't discourage anyone. You should still pursue your own projects and try to build something.

      well.. it's really hard to do over and over again. Every time I try to convince people in start-up I work with (not necessarily on side project, but also on a paid project) to make things easier so we can actually launch something, they mostly don't listen to me and fail as a result.. After 3 years in the industry I don't really have any desire to persuade somebody yet again as people just don't listen.

      That's why I decided any subsequent projects I do will be my own projects (you can actually see it in neighbor topic - dx11 renderer). Right now I had to join the paid job (not even game related) to replenish my money stock which went little bit dry during several month of writing code on my own. When I'll have enough to pay for a flat I hope I can continue developing the library and pray it'll lead to something in the future..
      Looking for a job!
      My LinkedIn Profile

      The post was edited 1 time, last by devast3d ().

    • Originally posted by rezination
      That's unfortunate, but also very typical. Most game projects fail for similar reasons. It sounds like the key element that was missing was organization and leadership (a producer and lead engineer). Many of the things you described have been felt time and time again. A friend of mine quit his job as an art lead for Kabam to work on an indie project. He wrote an extensive post on his experiences which is really worth reading:
      medium.com/what-i-learned-building/a2ab2683a341

      I hope this doesn't discourage anyone. You should still pursue your own projects and try to build something.
      -Rez


      That was an interesting read. I don't know if I would want to do/risk something like that. Would you say that the "bigger" companies are more secure to work at? I think my dream game job would be working on an MMORPG. I love the idea of being able to create a game and instead of just shipping it out constantly changing/adding to it and, hopefully, making it better.

      I'm not anywhere near that yet (finishing up a python engine primarily based on GCC engine and making some games), but its a nice future goal. Too bad I just turned 30 and what was the future seems to become the present at a faster pace.
    • Originally posted by geshi
      Jeez Rez, you're going soft on us--that was almost a happy story. I mean, he said he would, given the chance, do it all over again at the end of the post.


      Oh, I can be mean. ;) When we were ramping up for production, I was interviewing quite a bit. Me and Peter (our lead gameplay programmer) got the reputation for being the ringers and were called intimidating on more than one occasion. I've had several candidates apologize for wasting my time. I never talk down to them or do anything like that, I just keep going and poke holes in every solution they come up with. I ask intentionally open ended questions with multiple answers so I can see how they solve a problem based on the considerations.

      As for the indie stuff, most people I know think the same way. It's hard, most of them fail, but nearly all of them would do it again in a heartbeat. To tell you the truth, I've considered quitting my job and teaching full time just so that I can work on my own stuff on the side without worrying about contractual obligations. There's something really appealing about going down the indie road.

      One of the biggest problem I see with new developers is a lack of motivation. No one wants to actually finish a game because 80% of making a game is hard work. People tend to focus on just the 20% that's really fun and ignore the rest. People will start to make a little progress, then they'll abandon it for another project or it'll just get old. Who here is willing to spend the next 2 years of their life on a single side project? How many people here have completed a game? I know that several of you have, which is awesome. Those people can attest to how much work it is. By the end of the project, you're so sick of it that you don't even want to see it anymore, but you push through. Passion, drive, and stubbornness see you to the end.

      Here's an interesting exercise. Think about one of your favorite game ideas. Would you be willing to spend the next 2 years of your life doing nothing but working on that project? That's a powerful question. If the answer is no, then you should assess why that's the case. If the answer is yes, then you should start working on that project and keep it going until it's DONE.

      As another example of what I mean, let's look at the last GDC. I issued a challenge to the community to come up with a full-on game that they felt was complete. I would offer a professional critique and recommend those that were really good to the gods of hiring here at EA. This is something I would have KILLED for when I was just starting out. I would have stayed up for days on end (consequences be damned!) just to finish and polish it. Hell, even if it were just the critique... that's what I really wanted.

      So when GDC came around, how many people met that challenge? Only one. Regardless of skill, I would rather hire that one engineer who demonstrated an ability to finish a project and talk about it then an army of people who have never finished anything. It's important to note that this isn't new. This sort of response is pretty typical whenever I issue similar challenges. Actually, the fact that one person pushed through and asked for the critique was very surprising.

      By the way, I hope this is not coming off as overly harsh. My directness can sometimes be mistaken for something negative when that's not the intention at all. I'm just trying to get you guys to think about it a little.

      (Also, my offer stands for GDC 2014. If you can finish a small game, I will play it at GDC and offer a full critique.)


      well.. it's really hard to do over and over again. Every time I try to convince people in start-up I work with (not necessarily on side project, but also on a paid project) to make things easier so we can actually launch something, they mostly don't listen to me and fail as a result.. After 3 years in the industry I don't really have any desire to persuade somebody yet again as people just don't listen.

      As an indie? Yeah, that would be rough. Your best bet is students. Even still, you always have to assume that you're the only one who will actually be on the project. I've had people tell me they were with me 100% and I never saw a single asset. It's rare that I ever see anything. If I ever try and make an indie game, I would do as much myself as possible, then do a kickstarter or Steam greenlight and use that money to hire professional contractors. The only way you can guarantee art (or anything) is to have money to pay someone for the contract.


      That's why I decided any subsequent projects I do will be my own projects (you can actually see it in neighbor topic - dx11 renderer). Right now I had to join the paid job (not even game related) to replenish my money stock which went little bit dry during several month of writing code on my own. When I'll have enough to pay for a flat I hope I can continue developing the library and pray it'll lead to something in the future..

      I'm the same way. My Bleach engine was written 100% by me. I have refused offers from other programmers to contribute because it's the one piece of code I truly own. I might make an exception one day for the game-specific C++ code and I've already offered to let one of my friends contribute to the game-specific Lua code, but I don't think I'd ever let anyone contribute to the engine.


      That was an interesting read. I don't know if I would want to do/risk something like that. Would you say that the "bigger" companies are more secure to work at? I think my dream game job would be working on an MMORPG. I love the idea of being able to create a game and instead of just shipping it out constantly changing/adding to it and, hopefully, making it better.

      The games industry is generally unstable, but working at a studio is MUCH more stable. The average time a person spends at a typical game company is about 2 years, give or take. The longest job I've ever had is this one, and I just celebrated my 3 year anniversary.

      Some people love to extend a single code-base. On The Sims, we have expansion packs that continue to come out for like 7+ years after the game ships. Some developers LOVE those expansions because they are like clockwork. They know exactly what to expect, know the code, and just want to keep making it better and expanding it. That's a totally viable thing to do. Personally, that sort of thing would drive me nuts, but I'm also an AI specialist. Once The Sims 4 comes out, the core AI will be done and good to go. There will be very little AI work for me, so I'll want to move on to another project. I'm also an architect; I like to design and build giant systems from the ground up. Once you get put on a mature game like that, you rarely get to do any kind of architecting.


      I'm not anywhere near that yet (finishing up a python engine primarily based on GCC engine and making some games), but its a nice future goal. Too bad I just turned 30 and what was the future seems to become the present at a faster pace.

      I'm sure you'll rock it. Just remember these three things:
      1) Make games and FINISH them.
      2) Get critiques from professionals who have had to build those systems many times before.
      3) Set milestones & goals for yourself that you do your best to stick to. A little crunching to reach a self-imposed deadline is good for you.

      Hope that helps.

      -Rez
    • Originally posted by rezination
      Oh, I can be mean. ;) When we were ramping up for production, I was interviewing quite a bit. Me and Peter (our lead gameplay programmer) got the reputation for being the ringers and were called intimidating on more than one occasion. I've had several candidates apologize for wasting my time. I never talk down to them or do anything like that, I just keep going and poke holes in every solution they come up with. I ask intentionally open ended questions with multiple answers so I can see how they solve a problem based on the considerations.


      I'm sure you'll rock it. Just remember these three things:
      1) Make games and FINISH them.
      2) Get critiques from professionals who have had to build those systems many times before.
      3) Set milestones & goals for yourself that you do your best to stick to. A little crunching to reach a self-imposed deadline is good for you.

      Hope that helps.

      -Rez


      Thanks for the support. Out of curiosity and preparation, what were some of the questions you would ask?
    • Originally posted by Trinak
      Thanks for the support. Out of curiosity and preparation, what were some of the questions you would ask?


      It depends on the candidate and their seniority. I usually introduce myself and then ask them about what they want, why they're leaving, and anything about their resume that caught my eye. I usually ask them to describe something they built to get a feel for their communication ability.

      The first real technical question I ask is a warm-up question that I expect everyone to nail. "What's the difference between an array and a linked list and why would I use one over the other?" This weeds out a surprising number of candidates. My next several questions are usually data structure questions and they get more and more complex. Many questions have multiple answers. "What's the best way to store game objects in memory?" I expect a bunch of questions back from them, or at least a demonstration of their realization that there is no single answer.

      After that, I move into my Big Question, which is my Army Guy question. It's not so much a question as it is an experience. I can't really post it here, I'd have to run through it with you in person for it to work. It's an architecture question that has you spending the next 30 - 45 minutes (or longer) building an AI architecture while I throw more problems at you, usually under the guise of a game designer. It's basically "implement this design" followed by "the design has now changed into this". This causes 75% (or more) of candidates to fall apart completely for various reasons. The purpose of the question is to watch you think and see where your programming instincts are.

      Somewhere in there I tend to find some major gaps. I usually ask questions around those gaps. By the end of the interview, I've formed my opinion and give them a chance to ask me anything they want. Some people try to think of clever questions to ask me, but it doesn't matter. I've made my decision by then.

      If a candidate does particularly badly, I end the interview a bit early and give them advice as to what I think they need to work on. Again, this also depends on their level. I regularly do this for junior engineers but rarely for someone who's a mid-level or senior engineer unless they ask (which has happened a few times). I'm supportive, but I'm also very direct because that's how I like to be treated. It's also the only way you can get better.

      -Rez