Console Programming

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • Console Programming

      I wanted to post this under Sdks and tools but couldn't start a thread. So, I figured this might be a good place.

      I like the fact that mrmike makes specific reference to console programming in his book. many books fail to address this "dark art" at all.I have a special interest in console programming. Like most game programming it seems to be something that is shrouded in mystery.

      I would like to know the tools and especially any standard sdks used in this area. The only exception might be the Xbox since I believe it has its own dedicated environment. The PS2 is a main interest of mine but also would like to hear about nintendo GC as well.

      I'm familiar with a few homebrew tools for the PS2 and some scattered documentation. I have searched around for some "standard libs" but haven't found much. I would like to know if there are libraries in common use. and perhaps the best way to go about starting game development on a console system.

      if anyone is interested I would be gald to share what I know as well.

      thanks for listening

    • RE: Console Programming

      Yes, I've always wondered about this too. I've been hoping to run into a console programmer (I ran into many windows game programmers, who don't know anything about the console industry) to ask them about the Graphics libary they use.

      I know, that X-box uses something like Directx (thanx to the excerpt from Mr. Mike's book, still waiting for my order), which is a comfort as that's what I'm currently studying. I also know that Acclaim used FastGraph on one of their games and some people I know claim to be making a GBA game in OpenGL. But like Roba I'm wondering what the main Graphics libary used for most console systems is, or if most companies just use an in-house libary or what the story is?

      I want to work on console games and so I figure learning as much about the graphics libaries that are most commonly used, would increase my chances of getting hired.

    • RE: Console Programming

      Here's my current knowledge on PS2 homebrew development. There are basically two ways to do it:

      1)

      Sony offers a Linux kit with a custom distro (kondara linux, basically Japanese redhat 6.2) for your PS2. It comes with some hardware and some manuals and 2 discs. I'm not sure of the exact nature of the libraries on the disc but I believe they are meant to produce code that will run under the PS2 runtime (also on the discs). The price is about 200 US dollars. Sony claims that the environment is almost the same as a professional one and experience in this environment will help towards job experience (kind of attractive).

      2)

      There is also a homebrew compiler called gcc-ee obviously based on the linux gcc compiler and customized for the PS2 emotion engine. It is free but much harder to set up. There is a fair amount of information available on this but it is very fragmented.


      From what I gather Sony's PS2 linux kit offers a clearer but more restrictive environment. You can only write code that runs in the environment provided by the kit and there many things that have been hidden by a HAL. Also, documentation while extensive is incomplete I hear (6 out of 7 official manuals). Sony needs to protect their investment I suppose.

      The homebrew gcc-ee seems to have very few restrictions but is supported in no official way and you are pretty much on your own with many things. It also requires a naplink in order to load your programs up to the PS2. Which is basically a USB to USB cable and either a mod-chip for your PS2 or a swap disc.

      I have looked into both solutions and I think I'm a bit partial to Linux for PS2.


      Here are some good resources:

      ps2 linux(check out the FAQ)
      playstation2-linux.com/

      gcc-ee(check out the tutorials)
      ps2dev.org/

      Any additions to this list are welcome as well as any suggestions

      cheers

    • RE: Console Programming

      Originally posted by Gerry
      I've been hoping to run into a console programmer to ask them about the Graphics libary they use.


      Guess who I ran into today on the net... a lead designer who works at a company called ZedTwo Limited. They make and have made games for the Nes, Super Nes, Nintendo 64, PS2, GameCube, PC CD-ROM, mobile platforms and perhaps more, but that's all I found on a quick scan of the site.

      The following is all he said from the first round of questioning, but I'm going back to ask more:

      "As for how we develop on various consoles, once you get the devkit (which is an expensive hoop-jumping exercise quite often) you get libraries and example code and everything with it but these days it's only bigger companies that can afford to really code to the metal so to speak and so we use middleware wherever possible such as Renderware, which makes porting the game to other platforms a d**n sight easier as well.

      That only really applies to recent consoles, though. Stuff like the SNES and the Megadrive (and even PS1) were FAR simpler to get to grips with and so those were just hand coded from the ground up using the documentation and libraries provided."

      keyword being Renderware, which I am about to look into after he gets sick of answering my questions.

      OK, Ive made you wait long enough, here is the forum where he is currently residing, I hope he don't get mad at me for setting you all on him. Ohh well, he seems like a nice guy, helpful guy and I did tell him his advice would help out others and he didn't tell me not to tell ya where he wuz at, so whateva, just be nice. :D

    • RE: Console Programming

      Wouldn't it be cool if Criterion released older versions of Renderware for non-commercial development? They want to make the leap to become a "standard" like OpenGL and DirectX, which is a step above middleware.

      I think they should do it - the more people that know how to program with Renderware the more they'll be considered a standard.
      Mr.Mike
      Author, Programmer, Brewer, Patriot

    • RE: Console Programming

      Yes, that would be very cool. This is major concern in developing my coding skills. It seems anybody not working in the industry has only the PC as a platform for practice.

      I think our main concern is how relevant will these skills be to coding on other platforms or environments. Is there a good practice (or tool for that matter) that will apply to all? I guess that's what drives the whole GL / DX debate as well.

      It's just that ever present fear of "am I using a tool that is going to have any relevance for more than a month" that complicates things.

    • Maybe I can bash Mike King, Chad Barron and those guys over there to work with us to do something. I think the market is almost ready for this but only if they release something akin to a student version. I'll bust some chops and see what I turn up...

      - Ben

    • RE: Console Programming

      Got a hold of my ps2 linux kit. It's pretty cool. It is quite a proprietary setup though. Anything you write for it will probably only run on another p2 linux setup.

      The documentation included is quite good (and official) and is making for quite an educational experience. The libraries included by Sony also give you a lot of insight as to how they approach programming for the device in general and the examples are good. Other libraries like ps2gl are very interesting as well.

      If you're into console programming, I would say all in all it's money well spent. And the fun factor is very high.

      cheers

    • Random tip

      Everyone I know who has done any PS2 development hates it with a passion that burns with the white-hot intensity of one thousand stars, or so they claim. Basically no one likes the obfuscated hardware design of PS2, it's slower than the Xbox and GameCube, and it doesn't have pixel shaders.

    • RE: Random tip

      Yup - that's what I hear too. Gamecube is easy, Xbox is hardly different than a PC. While I've never done Gamecube myself, I have it on good authority on its friendliness from a friend that worked at Acclaim here in Austin, and currently is the lead programmer on Thief 3.
      Mr.Mike
      Author, Programmer, Brewer, Patriot

    • RE: Random tip

      It's a real shame that Nintendo keep making the same mistakes. Appealing to what they believe is lowest common denominator by not going with CD on the 64, minimal configuration of the system with the Cube and steering away from adult games and Square soft. But their biggest mistake was letting go of Rareware, I've been a hard core Nintendo fan for years, but when they did that, I had to let THEM go. Maybe Double Dash (the next Mario Kart) might convince me to buy the console, we will see.

    • RE: Random tip

      It really seems that XBox was really able to push everything up to a new level. With XBox Live, the consol is able to do the things that PC's always could, and at some points was able to push consoles ahead of the PC.

      I like my XBox...
      Wort wort wort.